For discussion, should people be able to buy poap in the secondary market? This problem, I think, since there has always been a transferable transaction in the chain, metamask also supports the transfer, and there is also a poap trading website, EpoR, which must be reasonable. If it is not reasonable, the official will suppress it at the beginning, and even set the contract deployment as non transferable assets. It is not to look for the trouble of transfer and transaction as it is now, which is not in line with the basic logic，If it is illegal for people to buy poap in the secondary market, or to transfer on the chain, then as a part of blockchain, the holder of poap cannot reasonably operate its own assets. What is the significance of decentralization? Even in the centralized world, the holder is fully qualified to reasonably allocate and apply its own assets, It is also qualified to buy the poap you need or like in the secondary market,So I fundamentally think this topic is completely meaningless
既然不是去中心化，而且不往这个方向去做，这很有问题。
赤裸裸的霸权主义，想干什么干什么，会损失大量的用户。
This is the English translation of this reply.
Transaction: This is the will and right for everyone, to promote circulation and create value. Why not do it?
Secret words: Leave this alone.It’s none of your business.
Collection: Just wanna ask:How do you know whether someone received the POAP participated in the event or not?
Burning: For example, loving young couple gave birth to the baby, the baby grew up and did something that difficult to understand. Would you let him return to the mother’s belly? Same reason, who give you guys the right for burning the poaps that community members collected so hard?
Thank you~ that’s what it means. very precise
This is the English translation of this reply.
This is not decentralized, and will cause serious problems.
Obviously hegemonic, if you continue to do whatever you want, you will lose a lot of users.
In my opinion, buying and selling POAP in the secondary market cannot be a problem in itself, even the possibility of buying and selling it is a way of creating value for its owners.
So, that was a long rant and I apologize for being so verbose. The core of this discussion actually boils down to sybil resistance, and until POAP implements a true sybil resistance platform (like BrightID), we don’t have room to complain about the abuses. I believe the REAL goal is “one mint per person”, and not necessarily shutting down farmers. When robust sybil resistance is applied the farmers will find it difficult to stay engaged.
I’m so sad to hear about the loss of your POAPs. It really upsets me. The hardest part is that you’re so engaged with the community and there’s no obvious remedy.
Should people be able to purchase POAP’s on the secondary market?
- POAPs being designed, created, minted, & utilized in a variety ways inherently complicates these issues. Short answer: It comes down to ownership. If a user owns something, it is theirs to do as they please (buy, sell, gift, burn, lose, ect.). Ownership of that token can be a simple memory, a contract between minter & creator, or a placeholder for something to come later. Purpose shouldn’t change ownership. I suspect this is some of the complexities “Soulbound” NFTs seek to solve (even then the containing wallet could be bought/sold)
How should we think about those who intentionally try and manipulate the protocol?
- What should be done with people caught sharing Secret Words?
- What should be done with people caught collecting POAPs from events they did not attend?
I personally am a believer of some measure of forgiveness for ignorance or stupidity. Something that leaves a little room for mistakes & whatnot. A three strike rule or the like.
These are very interesting problems & I’m curious to see the solutions that arise. That’s my two gwei anyway.
I like the idea that POAPs are soul-bound and understand the idea they shouldn’t be traded because they really do incentivise people to visit an event to receive the POAP, there is sentimental value behind it. There’s big advantage for people who don’t have the capital to give their attendees something physical which is where I think POAPs shine. I’m a big Pokemon card collector and I enjoy pulling/ want to pull cards which have a high value/rarity which also appreciate in value over time which I can later trade or sell. I can see the same for POAPs which have a small supply or are difficult to acquire due to geographic/virtual limitations which look cool.
I think there could be some sort of compromise where POAPs could be tradable, limited to 1 per address and if it leaves your account it can never exist in your account again.
Should people be able to purchase POAP’s on the secondary market?
- If so, what might be a good or bad reason to purchase a POAP on the secondary market?
Secondary market sales add interest and social proof for POAPs in general. It’s like selling any souvenir - some OG holders keep, some sell. The beauty is with blockchain it’s easy to tell if the holder is the OG minter. In fact, you could activate some kind of ring around the POAP in the POAP viewer to indicate Original Holder or Secondary Holder.
How should we think about those who intentionally try and manipulate the protocol?
- What should be done with people caught sharing Secret Words?
Ban them from the platform. Sharing Secret Words goes against the purpose of POAP. We all have the ability to steal things, but we shouldn’t. The idea that the onus is on the platform to not allow people to act unethically instead of people not acting as they should is ridiculous.
- What should be done with people caught collecting POAPs from events they did not attend?
It’s fine if it’s bought on a legal secondary market. If someone is claiming from an event they didn’t attend they should be banned. It’s called Proof of Attendance Protocol for a reason. The idea you could mint a POAP for something you didn’t attend defeats the entire purpose. If the POAP org wants to change the purpose to something other than attendance, then that’s another discussion.
I don’t agree with buying and selling them because it loses its original nature. But you have to think of a new way to distribute them so that people who are not in the meeting cannot get them easily. This is a kind of theft.
Hi @superphiz, I know that you are more of a discord man so great to see you here on Discourse sharing your views. Indeed, something I’ve noticed from listening in to the weekly community chats is that you are always up front about yourself and what you have done with poaps, this honesty is certainly appreciated.
I agree with you regarding sybil resistance and how POAP must strive to become better.
In this regard, prevention is better than cure.
Burning POAPS is frustrating because poaps can be picked up by anyone, and it hurts innocent people who love poaps.
Is there a way to transfer poaps to a new uncomprimised wallet? My old wallet has a few from last year that i really want.
- I understand that you can move Your POAP from the POAP application to for example OPENSEA however the GASFEES are very high in question of selling in secondary markets I would not know as I have not had the opportunity.
- Wow I didn’t know about that situation, very interesting case. I understand that if it is a situation because the idea of POAP is to create and preserve the experience of the moment, event etc…
Should people be able to purchase POAP’s on the secondary market?
POAPs were originally issued as proof of work, but our POAPs are also transferable. I think POAP should not be tradable, and to prohibit this behavior from the source, it is very necessary to update the underlying protocol of POAP to make POAP similar to SBT. We seem to have gotten some criticism recently for burning POAP on some Hunter addresses, accusing us of being centralized. I have a different opinion. I think whether it is centralized or decentralized, it depends on whether our decision will promote and develop the project itself in the long run. Inappropriate sharing or malicious collection of POAP is very necessary to be banned. Back to the essence of the problem, I think we are not just Burn, which cannot fundamentally solve the current problem, but makes POAP non-transferable. Immutable.
A few points from others:
-
Rules
How to identify a collection violation? You have no posting rules. Just by Mr @worthalter丨POAP ran like a king to the Chinese community and arrogantly left that paragraph? Any community needs strict rules, sorry you don’t. -
Procedure
We all know that in the United States, even if they commit murder, they have to go through trial procedures to sanction them. Collector’s poap is burnt, no notification, no appeal process, straight away, what do you think you are doing? -
Assets
For a long time, POAP has been used as an “crypto asset” on personal address, and you have dealt with it directly. What is the difference between your actions and those of “thieves” and “robbers”? -
Injury
I believe that most of the POAPs that were burned were obtained by collectors participating in activities, and they were all burned indiscriminately. Even if you think you did the right thing, you hurt the early supporters. You are cruel. -
Decentralization
You continue to participate in various decentralized activities to promote POAP, but you are actually a centralized company in the guise of decentralization. Now it seems that your behavior is deceitful and a complete joke. I believe that many people have begun to debunk your essence. Yes, I’ve seen a lot on twitter. -
Vote with feets
To put it simply, you issued restrictions on project parties, causing many project parties to give up poap and use other proof of attendance such as project galaxy.
You suppress collectors and institute a lot of restrictions, the user experience is getting worse and worse, and your development space is limited.
Previously, when a large number of users POAPs were stolen, you did not have any support measures and no sanctions against hackers. Now you are sanctioning your users. You are cold-blooded. -
Return donations
Many of us have donated to the POAP project, but I think you have deviated from the wishes of many donors. I hope you return my personal donations. I no longer support the POAP project. -
Shame
You have been an arrogant group and I am ashamed to have followed your project for so long.
This is my personal opinion. You don’t have to respond or refute me. By the way, you guys have a habit of muting or kicking out your channel, would love to see you do it again.
Thanks!
Should people be able to purchase POAP’s on the secondary market?
If we believe in blockchain activities being permissionless and decentralised, then yes. To police this with a centralised entity after minting goes against what Ethereum is about.
If there are issues with too many being issued, or the incorrect people minting POAPs then this should be handled at the stage of issuing the POAP. Exercising centralised control before minting is acceptable to most.
If so, what might be a good or bad reason to purchase a POAP on the secondary market?
-Attending an event, and missing the window to request/claim the POAP (or forgetting)
-Being filtered out incorrectly from claiming
How should we think about those who intentionally try and manipulate the protocol?
-Should be strict methods to manage who can claim a POAP, eg for an Eth Staking related POAP, it can be sent to the account that deposited into the official deposit contract (claimers can be asked to submit this). This is just one example, but is easy to verify and limits claims to one per validator (and usually one address that sent to multiple validators).
What should be done with people caught sharing Secret Words?
-Secret words are not a good enough method to filter out invalid claims. The question is not what to do with people, the question is what to do to fix Secret Words?
What should be done with people caught collecting POAPs from events they did not attend?
-Prevent them collecting them at mint time.
-If it happens on the secondary market, that is part of a decentralised permissionless protocol and I believe nothing should be done at that late stage. If you prevent invalid/excessive minting, this will reduce secondary market sales/purchases.
Although POAP is run by one centralised group, we can still ASK that they not exercise excessive control once each item is out in the wild.